From our "you just cannot make this shit up" dept

[Susan]

x-no-archive: yes

Turns out the infection from the botched silver point root canal 45
years ago didn't just infect my sinus, it destroyed my maxillary floor
and filled my jaw bone with granuloma cyst. The pain and heat have
expanded to my entire right eye orbit and right ear, scarring my ear
drum without observable infection.

Scouting surgeons at the moment.

I just feel like this is never going to end.

Most of this has not been visible on even excellent, high res imaging
studies.

Susan, who thinks among doctors and dentists, the bad apples are a huge
majority

[asfyso]

Uuugghhh...
Did they manage to identify the pathogen, at last ? Some kind of slow-
growing staph ?

Post by Susan
x-no-archive: yes
Turns out the infection from the botched silver point root canal 45
years ago didn't just infect my sinus, it destroyed my maxillary floor
and filled my jaw bone with granuloma cyst. The pain and heat have
expanded to my entire right eye orbit and right ear, scarring my ear
drum without observable infection.
Scouting surgeons at the moment.
I just feel like this is never going to end.
Most of this has not been visible on even excellent, high res imaging
studies.
Susan, who thinks among doctors and dentists, the bad apples are a huge
majority

[Susan]

x-no-archive: yes

Post by asfyso
Uuugghhh...
Did they manage to identify the pathogen, at last ? Some kind of slow-
growing staph ?

This type of infection is invariable highly polymicrobial and with both
gram neg and pos infections. Cultures nor PCR since there was no way to
isolate material from oral contact. I asked ahead of time.

When I have more surgery, I will ask for cultures and PCR; I never
culture positive for anything unless they hold samples for much longer
than normal.

Susan

[Steven L.]

Post by Susan
x-no-archive: yes
Turns out the infection from the botched silver point root canal 45
years ago didn't just infect my sinus, it destroyed my maxillary floor
and filled my jaw bone with granuloma cyst. The pain and heat have
expanded to my entire right eye orbit and right ear, scarring my ear
drum without observable infection.
Scouting surgeons at the moment.
I just feel like this is never going to end.
Most of this has not been visible on even excellent, high res imaging
studies.

Susan,
That's the part I find stunning: How could such damage not show up on a
CT scan, bone scan, or MRI. Do your physicians have an explanation?

I'm really sorry you're going through all this.

What I have noticed from my own experiences, is that ENTs and other
physicians who see patients with sinus symptoms, rarely consider the
possibility of dental etiology. They never did with me. (In contrast,
most oral surgeons seem familiar with the possibility of dental problems
causing sinusitis.)

Susan,
Your experiences have a lot to offer other sinusitis patients.
But this newsgroup is virtually dead, like much of the rest of Usenet.

I think it's time we migrated to Facebook.




-- Steven L.

[Susan]

x-no-archive: yes

Post by Susan
Susan,
That's the part I find stunning: How could such damage not show up on a
CT scan, bone scan, or MRI. Do your physicians have an explanation?

Steven, I'm not surprised at all, having done so much research on
imaging technology after having been blown off so much based on it.

The technology isn't the gold standard some would have you believe, and
even good images are more often than not read fast and/or poorly.

Sure made a believe out of the endodontist; he wrote in his report that
there were no signs at all of infection or inflammation on the C-T and
that the maxilla looked completely normal and the metal was much more
intrusive than shown on the imaging. The surgeon who left this mess
ruled out infection and accused me of being a nutjob using the exact
same equipment and software and did an image of such poor quality that
it didn't even hint at the metal's presence.

Not even good enough for government work. And of course, a very
respected local practitioner.

Post by Susan
I'm really sorry you're going through all this.

Thanks. Found two more problems tonight in an eval with the wonderful
endodontist. A non vital tooth needing root canal right in the middle
of the granulytic segment of my jaw, and decay on the other side where I
also have cheekbone pain, behind a large filling I had done a few years
ago to replace metal.

Post by Susan
What I have noticed from my own experiences, is that ENTs and other
physicians who see patients with sinus symptoms, rarely consider the
possibility of dental etiology. They never did with me. (In contrast,
most oral surgeons seem familiar with the possibility of dental problems
causing sinusitis.)

I know, and it's incredibly common to have molar intrusion causing
maxillary sinusitis and sinus floor erosion. And ALL root canals are
infectious, unless they're done with great care with a side firing laser
and filled very tightly after sealant is put in the root tips.

Post by Susan
Susan,
Your experiences have a lot to offer other sinusitis patients.
But this newsgroup is virtually dead, like much of the rest of Usenet.
I think it's time we migrated to Facebook.

I agree about usenet, but I'm too much of a privacy geek to use FB
except for secret groups like the one place I pose on FB.

Susan

[Steven L.]

Post by Susan
I agree about usenet, but I'm too much of a privacy geek to use FB
except for secret groups like the one place I pose on FB.

How about a Google Group? More folks are liable to find it than find
Usenet. Most ISPs don't even support Usenet anymore. Verizon,
Comcast, etc., have dropped it.

This newsgroup is dead. You, me, and asfyso are the only 3 regulars
left. As things stand now, we could just send email back and forth to
ourselves.





-- Steven L.

[Susan]

x-no-archive; yes

Post by Susan
I agree about usenet, but I'm too much of a privacy geek to use FB
except for secret groups like the one place I pose on FB.

How about a Google Group? More folks are liable to find it than find
Usenet. Most ISPs don't even support Usenet anymore. Verizon, Comcast,
etc., have dropped it.
This newsgroup is dead. You, me, and asfyso are the only 3 regulars
left. As things stand now, we could just send email back and forth to
ourselves.

LOL...

I don't know about google... but will have to see about the ever
changing privacy settings on FB... do they have a sinus group already?

The endodontist found, based upon my complaint and despite normal
imaging, that I have a non vital tooth on the granuloma side by testing
it with freezing cold...

And a bunch of decay behind a fairly new composite filling on the upper
other side, which has been causing pain at the bottom of my right
cheekbone and jaw...

So more root canals for moi... and the one on the right will have to
come before any other facial intervention so we know what pain is dental
and what's jaw/sinus/facial

Susan

[asfyso]

Post by Susan
x-no-archive; yes

Post by Susan
I agree about usenet, but I'm too much of a privacy geek to use FB
except for secret groups like the one place I pose on FB.

How about a Google Group? More folks are liable to find it than find
Usenet. Most ISPs don't even support Usenet anymore. Verizon, Comcast,
etc., have dropped it.
This newsgroup is dead. You, me, and asfyso are the only 3 regulars
left. As things stand now, we could just send email back and forth to
ourselves.

LOL...
I don't know about google... but will have to see about the ever
changing privacy settings on FB... do they have a sinus group already?
The endodontist found, based upon my complaint and despite normal
imaging, that I have a non vital tooth on the granuloma side by testing
it with freezing cold...
And a bunch of decay behind a fairly new composite filling on the upper
other side, which has been causing pain at the bottom of my right
cheekbone and jaw...
So more root canals for moi... and the one on the right will have to
come before any other facial intervention so we know what pain is dental
and what's jaw/sinus/facial
Susan

Yahoo Groups offer good functionalities. There already is a
"helpsinuses" group, though, but it does not seem to be extremely
active. Googling "sinusitis support", eHealthforum/sinusitis appears
more prolific. It looks like this group has the most nominal members
(>6000), but posting has in effect dropped to zero.
Have all sinusitis sufferers really moved to FB ?

[Steven L.]

Post by asfyso

Post by Susan
x-no-archive; yes

Post by Susan
I agree about usenet, but I'm too much of a privacy geek to use FB
except for secret groups like the one place I pose on FB.

How about a Google Group? More folks are liable to find it than find
Usenet. Most ISPs don't even support Usenet anymore. Verizon, Comcast,
etc., have dropped it.
This newsgroup is dead. You, me, and asfyso are the only 3 regulars
left. As things stand now, we could just send email back and forth to
ourselves.

LOL...
I don't know about google... but will have to see about the ever
changing privacy settings on FB... do they have a sinus group already?
The endodontist found, based upon my complaint and despite normal
imaging, that I have a non vital tooth on the granuloma side by testing
it with freezing cold...
And a bunch of decay behind a fairly new composite filling on the upper
other side, which has been causing pain at the bottom of my right
cheekbone and jaw...
So more root canals for moi... and the one on the right will have to
come before any other facial intervention so we know what pain is dental
and what's jaw/sinus/facial
Susan

Yahoo Groups offer good functionalities. There already is a
"helpsinuses" group, though, but it does not seem to be extremely
active. Googling "sinusitis support", eHealthforum/sinusitis appears
more prolific. It looks like this group has the most nominal members
(>6000), but posting has in effect dropped to zero.
Have all sinusitis sufferers really moved to FB ?

I don't know where they went.
But once their ISPs dropped support for Usenet servers,
they couldn't stay here anymore.





-- Steven L.

[Susan]

x-no-archive: yes

Post by Steven L.
I don't know where they went.
But once their ISPs dropped support for Usenet servers,
they couldn't stay here anymore.

Usenet, I wish I could quit you! ;-)

I just can't. But the numbers are between zero and none these days.

A lot of folks in some groups have resorted to other free servers to
stay in usenet groups, but not others.



Susan

[Susan]

x-no-archive: yes

Now using Wilson's solution; gentamicin nasal spray (80mg per liter) on
right side.

To get another root canal on the sinus/granuloma area, then
maxillofacial surgery on the sinus floor and rest of jaw to clean it out
and replace the sinus membrane.

Susan

[asfyso]

Post by Susan
x-no-archive: yes
Now using Wilson's solution; gentamicin nasal spray (80mg per liter) on
right side.
To get another root canal on the sinus/granuloma area, then
maxillofacial surgery on the sinus floor and rest of jaw to clean it out
and replace the sinus membrane.
Susan

Well, what's to be said except wishing you good luck for this
hopefully successful step, Susan ?
(except, maybe, what would they replace the sinus floor with ?)

Regarding the group, I have had a look at Facebook, and there is only
one real sinusitis community, called "I Hate Sinusitis". What do
Steven and you (and other remaining members) think about it ?

[Susan]

x-no-archive: yes

Post by asfyso
Well, what's to be said except wishing you good luck for this
hopefully successful step, Susan ?
(except, maybe, what would they replace the sinus floor with ?)

Before it's replaced, I need it cleared of any and all black and grey
oxidized metal and infectious gunk. Then I need a flap made from nearby
tissue to replace my grey, black and gunky sinus membrane and probably
more collagen grafting to the sinus floor, directly under the membrane.

Post by asfyso
Regarding the group, I have had a look at Facebook, and there is only
one real sinusitis community, called "I Hate Sinusitis". What do
Steven and you (and other remaining members) think about it ?

I'll look but when I checked, I didn't find any that looked either
active or interesting to me. Would do a yahoo group with daily digest
or direct emails while small.

Susan

[Steven L.]

Post by Susan
x-no-archive: yes
Now using Wilson's solution; gentamicin nasal spray (80mg per liter) on
right side.

Be alert to any neurological symptoms.

The Cleveland Clinic stopped prescribing gentamicin irrigation after a
number of their patients started getting the famous gentamicin dizziness.

The capillaries of the nose are porous, and "topical" nasal medications
can easily get into the bloodstream (ask any cocaine snorter).




-- Steven L.

[Susan]

x

Post by Steven L.
Be alert to any neurological symptoms.
The Cleveland Clinic stopped prescribing gentamicin irrigation after a
number of their patients started getting the famous gentamicin dizziness.
The capillaries of the nose are porous, and "topical" nasal medications
can easily get into the bloodstream (ask any cocaine snorter).

Yes, I am well aware, and my tissues are atrophied/thinned due to
steroid spray use years ago, among other things.

The total amount of gentamicin in 1 liter of solution is 80mg, and I'm
getting two metered Afrin sized puffs to one nostril 3x per day. I know
it can be measured in the bloodstream after irrigation, and have even
seen suggestions of ototoxicity, but irrigation involves a greater
amount of solution, and this doctor specifically advised against it.

There is no more efficient way to deliver a medication/substance into
your blood stream than mucosa, unless you're mainlining.

When I need a quick hydrocortisone fix, I chew up a tab and hold it
under my tongue before swallowing for faster action, too.

Thanks for the reminder.

Susan

[asfyso]

Post by Susan
x

Post by Steven L.
Be alert to any neurological symptoms.
The Cleveland Clinic stopped prescribing gentamicin irrigation after a
number of their patients started getting the famous gentamicin dizziness.
The capillaries of the nose are porous, and "topical" nasal medications
can easily get into the bloodstream (ask any cocaine snorter).

Yes, I am well aware, and my tissues are atrophied/thinned due to
steroid spray use years ago, among other things.
The total amount of gentamicin in 1 liter of solution is 80mg, and I'm
getting two metered Afrin sized puffs to one nostril 3x per day.  I know
it can be measured in the bloodstream after irrigation, and have even
seen suggestions of ototoxicity, but irrigation involves a greater
amount of solution, and this doctor specifically advised against it.
There is no more efficient way to deliver a medication/substance into
your blood stream than mucosa, unless you're mainlining.
When I need a quick hydrocortisone fix, I chew up a tab and hold it
under my tongue before swallowing for faster action, too.
Thanks for the reminder.
Susan

So, what shall we do about moving the group to Yahoo, Facebook or
making it a Google group ?
Susan suggested a Yahoo group : should it be open or through
registration ? moderated ? Should it be a new group or should we join
"helpsinuses", a small group which is not moderated ?
Steven, Susan, would you like to create it or do you want me to do
it ?

[Susan]

x-no-archive: yes

Post by asfyso
So, what shall we do about moving the group to Yahoo, Facebook or
making it a Google group ?
Susan suggested a Yahoo group : should it be open or through
registration ? moderated ? Should it be a new group or should we join
"helpsinuses", a small group which is not moderated ?
Steven, Susan, would you like to create it or do you want me to do
it ?

Is the group you mention free of commercial origin/intent?

I don't think we ever needed moderation here when this group was active,
just use of filters.

I'm not sure what the benefit of moving would be, though? I mean, it
sounds as if other groups are pretty moribund, too. What about health
web sites with discussion groups? I haven't looked yet, but I wonder if
any of those have an active sinus discussion?

I'm awaiting a surgical plan for my jaw/sinus from a maxillofacial
surgeon I saw the other day. Meanwhile, I'm very suspicious that the
facial/ear pain and heat and illness that ensues is perilymph fistula...
really fits with my recent episodes in the supermarket aisles, actually
mentioned as a symptom.

Susan

[asdfasdf]

Post by asfyso
So, what shall we do about moving the group to Yahoo, Facebook or
making it a Google group ?
Susan suggested a Yahoo group : should it be open or through
registration ? moderated ? Should it be a new group or should we join
"helpsinuses", a small group which is not moderated ?
Steven, Susan, would you like to create it or do you want me to do
it ?

Not that anyone cares but I'm staying right here. Traffic is low,
access is free, and there really isn't much to talk about. Till
there is some sinusitis breakthrough anyway.

[asfyso]

So let's keep it this way for the moment. At least readers can find
the group easily through Google...

Post by asdfasdf

Post by asfyso
So, what shall we do about moving the group to Yahoo, Facebook or
making it a Google group ?
Susan suggested a Yahoo group : should it be open or through
registration ? moderated ? Should it be a new group or should we join
"helpsinuses", a small group which is not moderated ?
Steven, Susan, would you like to create it or do you want me to do
it ?

Not that anyone cares but I'm staying right here. Traffic is low,
access is free, and there really isn't much to talk about. Till
there is some sinusitis breakthrough anyway.

[Susan]

x-no-archive: yes

Post by asfyso
So let's keep it this way for the moment. At least readers can find
the group easily through Google...

Post by asdfasdf

Post by asfyso
So, what shall we do about moving the group to Yahoo, Facebook or
making it a Google group ?
Susan suggested a Yahoo group : should it be open or through
registration ? moderated ? Should it be a new group or should we join
"helpsinuses", a small group which is not moderated ?
Steven, Susan, would you like to create it or do you want me to do
it ?

Not that anyone cares but I'm staying right here. Traffic is low,
access is free, and there really isn't much to talk about. Till
there is some sinusitis breakthrough anyway.

Works for me!